고양이 행동학자 Pam Johnson-Bennett 인터뷰

고양이 행동학자 Pam Johnson-Bennett와 Floppycats의 Jenny Dean 인터뷰

Pam Johnson-Bennett는 세계적으로 유명한 고양이 행동주의자입니다. 그녀는 다음을 포함하여 고양이 행동에 관한 여러 책을 저술했습니다.

• 고양이처럼 생각하기:고양이처럼 잘 적응한 고양이를 키우는 방법
• 고양이 대 고양이:고양이가 한 마리 이상 있을 때 평화 유지
• 처음부터 시작하기:성인 고양이의 행동 문제를 수정하는 방법
• 꼬인 수염:고양이의 행동 문제 해결
• Hiss and Tell:고양이 축소 파일의 실화
• 사이코 키티:고양이의 미친 행동을 해결하기 위한 팁
• 고양이 사랑:고양이의 필요와 특성 이해

나는 Pam의 작업을 소개받았습니다. 한 독자가 처음부터 시작하기:성인 고양이의 행동 문제를 수정하는 방법이라는 책이 그녀가 새로 입양한 Ragdoll 구조 고양이의 생명을 구해주었다고 말했습니다. 주문하기로 했어요 책 사본을 확인하십시오. 나는 즉시 그것을 읽기 시작했고 그것이 어떻게 쓰여졌는지 즐겼다. 그러나 그것이 쓰여지는 방법뿐만 아니라 쓰여지는 것입니다. 저도 배우고 있었습니다! 책이 어떻게 쓰여지고 책에서 제공하는 정보를 즐긴 결과, Pam과 인터뷰를 할 수 있는지 알고 싶었습니다. 우리에게는 운이 좋았습니다. 그녀는 예라고 말했습니다!여기에서 Pam's Cat Behavior Associates 웹사이트를 방문할 수 있습니다. Animal Planet의 영국 시리즈 Psycho Kitty(Pam이 진행자)의 에피소드를 iTunes에서 볼 수 있습니다. 고양이와 함께하는 데 어려움이 있고 Pam과의 화상 상담을 예약하려면 여기에서 할 수 있습니다.Jenny: 자, 오늘 우리는 고양이 행동에 관한 7권의 책을 쓴 베스트셀러 작가인 Pam Johnson-Bennett와 이야기하고 있습니다. 그녀는 또한 Animal Planet의 영국 시리즈 Psycho Kitty의 호스트이며 세계에서 가장 인기 있고 찾는 고양이 행동 전문가 중 한 명입니다. 팸, 오늘 함께해주셔서 정말 감사합니다.팸: 나를 주셔서 감사합니다. 저는 고양이에 대해 이야기하는 것을 좋아합니다.Jenny: 저도 그렇습니다. 그리고 듣는 사람은 누구나 고양이에 대해 듣는 것을 좋아한다고 생각합니다. 그리고 저도 듣게 되어 기쁩니다. 나는 당신의 배경에 대해 조금 시작하고 싶었습니다. 고양이와 함께 자랐나요?팸 :아니요, 아니요, 완전히 공개하지도 않았고 어렸을 때에도 좋아하지 않았습니다. 그것은 내가 노출 된 모든 고양이가 제대로 훈련되지 않았기 때문입니다. 그래서 그들은 예의를 갖추지 못했습니다. 내가 무엇을 놓치고 있었는지 처음 알게 된 것은 아마 19~20세가 되었을 때였습니다.Jenny :글쎄, 좋아. 19살이나 20살에 그들과 상호작용하게 된 어떤 일이 있었나요?Pam :글쎄, 나는 고향을 걷고 있었다. 크리스마스였는데 크리스마스 쇼핑을 하고 있었는데, 크리스마스 이브에 눈 덮인 모든 곳의 교회 계단에 10대 소녀가 고양이 두 마리가 있는 상자를 들고 앉아 있었습니다. 그리고 내 제한된 지식으로도, 나는 그 새끼 고양이들이 이 추위에 외출할 필요가 없다는 것을 알고 있었습니다. 그리고 그녀는 그녀의 고양이에게 새끼 고양이가 있었고 엄마는 새끼 고양이를 없애고 새끼 고양이가 모두 사라질 때까지 집에 오지 말라고 말했습니다. 그리고 그녀는 춥고 피곤해서 내가 고양이들을 데려가지 않으면 교회 계단에 있는 상자를 그냥 두고 갈 거라고 말했습니다. 그래서 가져갔습니다...제니 :오 이런.팸 :그리고 모든 것을 잘못했습니다. 우선, 새끼 고양이는 어미에게서 떼어내기에는 너무 어렸습니다. 그리고 나는 모든 것을 잘못했습니다. 그리고 이 고양이들과 함께 다음 몇 년 동안 나는 그들을 훈련시키지 않았습니다. 나는 옳은 일을하지 않았다. 어느 날 나는 수의사에게 갔고 고양이는 몇 살이었고 수의사는 아주 오래 전의 일이라는 것을 명심해야 합니다. 수의사는 이 고양이들을 그냥 놔두자고 말했습니다. 그들은 썩었습니다. 집이 필요한 고양이가 더 많으니 그냥 놔두세요. 그리고 그것은 나를 깨우는 전화였습니다. 맙소사, 아니요. 이 문제를 해결해야 합니다. 그들이 엉망이라면 나는 그것을했다. 그래서 나는 집에 갔다. 그리고 그 당시에는 – 지금은 음악가였으며 고양이 행동에 들어갈 계획이 없었습니다. 그리고 집에 가서 서점을 다녔습니다. 물론 이것은 인터넷이 나오기 전의 일이기 때문에 책을 사려면 실제로 차를 타고 여러 곳을 가야 했습니다. 그리고 고양이에 관한 책은 없었습니다. 그래서 그에 대한 교육을 받은 적이 없습니다. 나는 내가 무엇을 잘못하고 있는지 몰랐기 때문에 고양이들에게서 배우고 내가 그들에게 기대하는 것보다 그들이 나에게 말하는 것을 알아내기로 결정했습니다. 그리고 그들을 교사로 삼고 그들에 대해 배우면서 내가 할 수 있는 모든 것을 읽었습니다. 고양이에 관한 모든 것을 읽었습니다. 나는 개 훈련 책을 읽었다. 결혼 상담, 육아를 읽었습니다. 나는 모든 것을 읽었다. 그리고 고양이가 너무 많이 변해서 다음 해를 위해 수의사에게 데려갔을 때 고양이는 같은 고양이라고 믿지 않았습니다. 그런 다음 그는 고객의 까다로운 고양이 몇 마리를 돕기 위해 저에게 전화를 걸기 시작했습니다. 그리고 그렇게 내 경력이 시작되었습니다. 계획이 아니었습니다. 그냥, 저는 음악가가 되려고 했고 뉴욕시에 살고 있었고 그렇게 하고 있었는데 수의사들로부터 점점 더 많은 전화를 받았어요. 오, 당신이 고양이와 함께 일할 수 있고 우리에게 이 고객이 있다는 소식을 들었습니다. 그리고 저는 깨달았습니다. 저는 정말 나쁜 음악가로서 돈을 벌 수 없고, 어쩌면 좋은 행동 전문가로서 돈을 벌 수 있을지도 모릅니다. 그리고 그렇게 경력이 시작되었습니다. 그래서 나는 그 두 고양이에게 정말 빚지고 있습니다. 왜냐하면 그들은 내가 가진 최고의 선생님이었기 때문입니다. 그 이후로 저는 수의사가 되었고 자격증을 취득했으며 필요한 모든 교육을 받았습니다. 하지만 정말 중요한 것은 고양이들에게서 온 것입니다.Jenny :모든 일이 당신을 위해 어떻게 이루어지고 함께 왔는지 정말 깔끔합니다. 그들은 무엇을 그렇게 끔찍하게 하고 있었습니까?팸 :그들은 실제로 정상적인 고양이 행동을하고 있었고, 나는 그들을 훈련시키지 않았습니다. 그들은 가구를 긁는 것부터 쓰레기통 밖에 오줌을 싸는 것부터 오는 사람을 물어뜯는 것까지 모든 일을 했습니다. 솔직히 말해서 그들이 한 모든 것이 내 잘못이었기 때문입니다. 나는 쓰레기통을 충분히 깨끗하게 유지하지 않았다. 나는 너무 작은 쓰레기통을 가지고 있었다. 고양이 2마리를 위한 화장실이 하나 있었습니다. 긁는 글을 잘못 적었습니다. 나는 고양이에 대해 잘 모르는 애완 동물 용품점에서 누군가가 사라고 들은 모든 것을 샀습니다. 카펫으로 덮여 있고 너무 부드럽고 흔들리는 작은 긁는 기둥입니다. 사람들이 찾아오면 내 고양이를 편안하게 해주고 고양이에게 선택권을 주는 대신, 나는 고양이를 데리러 손님에게 다가가 "아, 아니, 두려워하지 마세요, 여기"라고 말했습니다. 그러니 누가 들어도 네가 뭘 잘못했든 내가 했어, 내가 했어. 그래서 제가 상담을 할 때, 사람들이 자신이 한 일이나 고양이에 대한 기대, 고양이에 대한 믿음에 대해 이야기할 때 제가 거기에 있었던 것입니다. 전적으로 공감합니다.제니 :좋아요. 그것은 당신이 고양이와 함께 한 일에 대해 걱정할 때 분명히 도움이됩니다. 자, 지금 고양이가 몇 마리입니까?팸 :이제 하나가 있습니다. 우리는 몇 년 전에 24세, 18세, 17세 노령 고양이 세 마리를 잃었습니다. 그리고 지금 우리는 6살 된 고양이와 함께 있습니다. 실제로 그녀는 7살에 가깝습니다. 그리고 저는 구조견이 있습니다. 그리고 두 아이와 정말 바쁜 행동 연습으로 지금은 그것이 내 한계입니다. 내 말은 감정적으로 더 많이 갖고 싶다는 뜻이지만, 나는 고양이와 아마 매일 12시간씩 있을 것입니다. 그래서 고양이를 고쳤습니다.제니 :네, 좋습니다. 그래서, 당신은 어떻게 행동주의자로 시작하게 되었는지에 대해 이야기했습니다. 경력에서 가장 큰 보상은 무엇이었습니까?팸 :가장 좋은 점은 아이들이 관심을 갖고 상담을 하고 그곳에 어린 아이들이 있고 연수에 적극적으로 참여하는 모습을 볼 때입니다. 고양이가 무엇을 필요로 하는지 이해하는 책임을 맡는 클리커 훈련을 하는 것에 흥미를 느끼든 그게 전부입니다. 그게 방송보다 낫고, 책 파는 것보다 낫고, 그게 다야. 그 어린 아이, 우리가 어릴 때부터 시작한다는 걸 알기에 그게 다야. 그 아이가 키울 모든 애완동물이나 그 아이가 만나게 될 모든 동물은 그 아이가 일찍 배웠기 때문에 더 나은 삶을 살게 될 것입니다.Jenny :네. 나는 그것에 동의합니다. 제 조카는 이제 막 6살이 되었고 고양이를 사랑하고 아기 때부터 고양이를 사랑했습니다. 그리고 제 동생과 시누이에게는 동물이 없습니다. 그러나 그는 우리 엄마와 나, 그리고 그런 모든 것들 때문에 고양이에 대한 노출이 많습니다. 제가 아는 것을 그에게 가르치고 제 자신에게 상기시켜주는 것은 저에게 매우 흥미로운 경험이었습니다. 오 예, 이것은 일반적인 지식이 아닙니다.Pam :맞아, 우리 모두는 우리가 들은 것을 믿는 경향이 있기 때문이다. 우리는 늙은 아내의 이야기를 가지고 있습니다. 어렸을 때처럼 처음에 만났던 고양이들은 행동이 좋지 않았다. 그들이 제대로 행동하지 않는 이유는 아무도 그들을 훈련시키지 않았기 때문이라는 것을 깨닫기에는 너무 어렸습니다. 그래서 아이들과 함께 들어갈 수 있다면 제 딸은 이제 13살입니다. 그녀는 6~7살 때 우리 고양이에게 클리커 훈련을 시켰습니다. 이제 그녀는 삶의 일부일 뿐입니다. 그녀는 클리커 훈련을 이해하고, 조작적 조건화를 이해하고, 보상 시스템과 고양이와 함께 음식을 만드는 일을 이해합니다. 그녀는 혼자 있을 때 고양이와 아주 잘 어울릴 것입니다.Jenny :네, 너무 깔끔합니다. 이제 클리커 트레이닝을 무엇에 사용합니까? 함께 일하는 모든 고양이에게 사용합니까?팸 :고양이 부모에 따라 다릅니다. 일부 고양이 부모는 그것을 받아들이고 일부는 그렇지 않습니다. 그러나 클리커 훈련은 당신과 고양이 사이의 공통 언어가 되기 때문에 거의 모든 것에 사용할 수 있습니다. 그런 다음 리모콘은 원하는 행동과 고양이가 받게 될 보상 사이의 다리 역할을 합니다. 따라서 훌륭한 도구입니다. 모든 고양이 부모가 상담을 할 때 모든 사람이 상담을 원하는 것은 아닙니다. 그래서 항상 제시합니다. 하지만 훌륭합니다. 나는 심지어 내 아들의 물고기를 가지고 있고, 우리는 그 물고기를 클리커 훈련했습니다. 실제 리모콘을 사용하지 않고 펜 조명과 작은 음식 디스펜서를 사용합니다. 하지만 우리는 물고기를 클리커로 훈련시키기도 했습니다.Jenny :이 인터뷰 전에 웹사이트에서 당신에 대한 모든 것을 분명히 읽었고 이제 금붕어를 훈련시키는 방법이 궁금했기 때문에 궁금했습니다.Pam :하지만 살아서 음식이 필요하다면 클리커 훈련을 받을 수 있습니다. 두뇌가 있으면 이해가 됩니다. 물고기는 매우 똑똑합니다. 그래서 우리는 물고기에게 다음과 같이 가르쳤습니다. 제 말은, 물고기에게 물고기 세계에서 정말 중요한 일을 하도록 가르친 것은 아닙니다. 그래서 저는 물고기 속삭임이라는 직업이 없다고 생각합니다. 그러나 농구와 같은 것들. 믿거 나 말거나 실제로 물고기가 작은 농구를 골대 안으로 밀어 넣을 수 있도록 물에 넣을 수있는 작은 키트가 있습니다. 그것은 어리석은 일이지만 그것이하는 일은 훈련 방법을 보여주는 것입니다. 그것은 당신이 올바른 보상을 제공하면 물고기가 당신이 요구하는 것을 할 것이라는 것을 보여줍니다. 그리고 그것을 고양이와 개에게 적용할 수 있습니다. 그래서 제 고양이는 클리커 훈련을 받았습니다. 훌륭한 언어입니다. 둘 사이의 공통 언어가 될 뿐입니다.제니 :알겠습니다. 잘 알고 있습니다. 언젠가 제품 리뷰를 위해 클리커 훈련 장치를 보낸 것 같은데, 성스러운 대낮에 고양이가 무서워서 사용을 중단했습니다.Pam :일부 클리커 소리가 매우 큽니다. 그래서 당신은 시끄럽지 않은 리모콘을 선택하고 싶거나 주머니에 넣고 싶어합니다. 그리고 어려운 개념이 아닙니다. 그것은 많은 재미를해야합니다. 그러나 많은 사람들에게 낯설기 때문에 생각이 다릅니다. 어떤 사람들은 그것에 겁을 먹습니다. 하지만 그냥 즐기세요. 그러면 고양이도 재미있을 것입니다. 그리고 재미가 없다면 잘못하고 있는 것입니다.Jenny :괜찮아. 글쎄, 나는 그것을 다시 할 것이다. Things on a positive note, so my hope is this will lead to something positive – the question is, what’s one of the biggest frustrations that you’ve had as a cat behaviorist with human cat relationships.Pam :It breaks my heart when people call me, not because they really want to solve the problem but because they’re looking for me to validate that there’s something wrong with their cat and yes the cat should be euthanized or given to the shelter. And that’s heartbreaking because every problem can be worked on. And by the time you call me, if you’re already at that point where you’ve given up, we’re not going to be able to do the work. That’s devastating, and it happens more often than you think. Sometimes we can get the owners to give it another shot and they’ll work with me, and sometimes they clearly don’t want to and the best thing we can do is rehome the cat. And sometimes the behavior problem disappears because the problem was due to the environment. But my advice is if there is a behavior problem, don’t wait until you’re at that breaking where you just can’t stand it anymore and you feel like, okay, if we can’t solve this tomorrow, this cat is going to be sent to the shelter because problems don’t happen overnight. So they can’t be solved overnight.Jenny :I agree, and I do actually get a lot of emails from people wanting to rehome ragdolls because of behavior problems or things they hadn’t thought of going into the relationship. So I can understand that frustration in a way, even though I’m not a cat behaviorist.Pam :And you know, it’s interesting with cats, they’re the most popular pet, we love them so much. But yet still more often than not, and I know it’s more of a case with mixed breeds than pure breds, they are impulsive decisions. And so we don’t put into the relationship what’s needed, or we either think well they’re low maintenance, I don’t have time for a dog so we’re going to get a cat. And then we put into the relationship what’s needed and provide what the cat needs and then we get frustrated and we don’t understand why there’s a behavior problem.Jenny :Yes, yes. I agree. You know, one of the controversial things of course with pure breds is buying, not adopting. And so one of the pages that’s more popular on my site is the price of a ragdoll cat. But what I’ve tried to do is say it’s not about the initial price, it’s about the 20 year cost of keeping a cat.Pam :Exactly, right. And there are people who I come across in my business who don’t want to spend the money to do a behavior consultation. Yes, I know I’m expensive, but I do a tremendous amount of research and spend a lot of time with you working on the problem. But they’ll say, wow, the cat only cost me $15, I ‘m not spending that money on behavior. It has nothing to do with what you spent on the cost of the cat. It is a living creature, and this is a lifetime commitment that you made regardless of price.Jenny :Right, I concur. Have you ever had a cat that was specifically challenging for you?Pam :I took on rehabbing two ferals, the two ferals were the 17 and 18 year olds who passed away about a year, a year and a half ago. One of the ferals tested me to the limit. Every trick I had, she wasn’t buying. It took so long to do the trust building, I wore eau de tuna juice perfume forever with this cat. But she taught me a lot about going at her pace, not at my pace. She taught me a lot of lessons that I needed about patience and how to be creative. I bought her a cat tree, and she was too afraid to go in the cat tree. So I had to come up with solutions. And I bought a silk tree and I cut the branches off and I wired the silk tree branches to the cat tree so she would be invisible in there. She taught me a lot about thinking outside of the box and patience, and it took a long time. It took 3 years to rehab her, and she ended up being the cat of my heart.Jenny :That’s neat. That’s neat. As you were telling that story, I have one of my cats named Trig, he’s been hanging out while we’ve been on the phone. And he is challenging for me, not anywhere near a feral at all. But he just turned 6 years old and I feel like we’re starting to have some breakthroughs.Pam :Yeah, you have that moment, and that’s what I had – this cat’s name is BB. She’s the only cat who ever bit me. It was so hard and there were so many times when I thought this is never going to work, this is never going to work. Then there was that moment. It was almost like you saw the switch go on in her head where she made the decision, “Oh, Pam, you’re not the devil, maybe this is a good thing.” And from that moment on, the trust building started, and it was worth the three years of frustration and patience to have what we had for 17 years.Jenny :Yes, neat. I love it. I have a huge smile on my face. Now what about a client’s cat. Have you ever encountered one where you had similar frustrations?Pam :There are cats who challenge me, yeah, but I have to honestly say it’s the family that frustrates me more than the cat because the cat is just doing what’s natural. If the cat is not using the litter box, there’s a perfectly good reason for it from the cat’s point of view. If the cat is biting someone, it makes sense to the cat why he feels he has to bite. So my frustration is less with the cats. Sometimes I wish I had an easy answer and could figure out what the cat’s trying to tell me, but it’s the family. And I say that not in a judgemental way because I’ve been there, I get frustrated. And so my frustration is that people try to rush the process. If I say take this step and don’t go to step two for at least a week and then they go there the next day or they decide, well, we’re going to skip step one and we’re just going to go right to step two, that becomes very frustrating because there’s a reason why I lay the map out that way.Jenny :Yeah. I can also understand wanting to rush it because you just want it fixed but those things take time of course.Pam :Yeah. Or you see a little bit of progress, like I’ll tell people if they’re doing a new cat introduction, okay, I only want them to see each other for this amount of time. And they’ll see that it’s going well, so they rush it and they’ll say, “Oh, well they were together for 5 minutes, 10 minutes and it was great, so let’s leave them together for the rest of the afternoon,” and then of course everything backfires. So I’m not a control freak, but when I tell you please follow my plan to the letter, it’s because I know that’s the way it’s going to work the best.Jenny :Yes. 예. What would you say are the three most common cat behavior problems and why?Pam :Litter box problem, clearly the runaway number one. And there are many reasons for it. It can be a medical problem. It can be the litter box set-up itself – it’s either too small, too dirty, not the right kind of litter box, not the right location, or it can be an environmental issue around the litter box. The litter box could actually be just a symptom of a bigger problem. So litter box is number one. Number two would be new cat introductions. People either don’t do an introduction and they just kind of put the cats together because somebody told them one time that just let them work it out, or we have a dog mentality and we think, well, the cats will become friends, I’ve got this companion for you, you should love it. Or we do the wrong kind of introduction. And then if you don’t’ do a good introduction, you’re going to set the cats up to not be good friends. So that’s a big issue. And the third one would be aggression, whether it’s aggression toward another cat or aggression toward people. That’s a big one, and that can be a deal breaker. We can handle a lot of things, the cat peeing outside of the litter box or scratching the furniture. But boy, if the cat bites a child or a family member or a guest, that becomes the deal breaker. So those are probably the three things I get called the most for.Jenny :Okay. What’s normally the reason why a cat you know bites an adult human or something like that? Do they bite without being abused?Pam :Oh, yeah, they can. The thing is that cats, they don’t want a confrontation. That’s why they do the whole posturing, you know, the Halloween cat, and all the hissing and all the things they do. They want to look bigger and badder than they are so that you won’t mess with them. And so a cat will only bite you if he feels he’s backed in a corner and he has no other choice. So we don’t read body language signals. We just kind of get the cat and do what we think needs to be done. And so the cat may feel the only way to get you to stop is to bite. For example, you might be brushing your cat, and you don’t pay attention to the body language signals that it’s saying that this is starting to hurt, my patience is wearing thin, you’re brushing a sensitive area, and the cat is doing all kinds of signals, twitching the skin or lashing the tail or meowing or looking back at you or the ears are twitching and you’re not paying attention. And so then he bites. And then what happens when he bites is you stop doing what you’re doing. So from the cat’s point of view, hey that worked, that’s my method of communication, I’m going to bite. So we have to pay closer attention to how we do things, make them positive so that the cat doesn’t feel the need to bite, pay attention to the body language, and give the cat a choice. And that’s one thing a lot of times we don’t do, we don’t give the cat a choice. We put cats in together and say, okay, you’re all going to use this one litter box and you’re all going to eat from one community food bowl. And we don’t give cats choices. They have to have choices, and I’m not saying choices like a menu of food. I mean choices of where I feel safe for eating, where I feel safe for using the litter box, those kinds of things.Jenny :Yes.Pam :Or I don’t want to come out from under the bed right now, or I need a hiding place so that when you have company over, there’s someplace I can hide and feel safe. And we don’t do that. A lot of times we don’t give the cat a choice.Jenny :Okay. I distinctly remember when I got my first cat when I was 8 years old after begging and begging and begging for it. And I was probably introduced to a cat at 6 years old. Before that, I just grew up with German Shepherds. And then that cat I got at 8 died of FIP, and then I got another cat at 10 who was the cat that, the reason why we’re on the phone today. He was the reason why I created my website. So it was basically only Ragdolls that I was ever exposed to. And then when I started getting into high school and going over to people’s houses more frequently and encountering their cats, that’s when I realized, whoa, you can’t just pet any cat. It can turn around and bite you in half a second. And I maybe pet it three times. So I’m not very forthcoming with other people’s cats, in other words, of making an effort. I always let them come up to me.Pam :And that’s the best way to be. There is cat etiquette, and if people would follow that… And that comes down to giving choice. When two cats would meet each other, if they are friendly and if they want more interaction, they’ll go nose to nose and they’ll do nose to nose sniffing. And based on that nose to nose sniffing, they’ll decide if they want more interaction or they don’t. Well, what I do with cats is I extend my index finger. I don’t stick my finger in the cat’s nose, but I just hold it down there and the cat will either walk up to me and sniff my finger and then either move closer, rub against me, or back away. The cat then has the choice about are we going to have an interaction or not. But I never just go up to a cat just because you know the cat is beautiful and I want to pet him and just start petting or picking him up. I think that’s rude. So I try to follow the cat protocol.Jenny :I’m laughing because I always say that, like as if my cats are talking, you’re just so rude. Yeah, but I agree.Pam :I even do it with my cat. If she’s sitting on her cat tree sleeping or looking out the window and I have to pick her up for something, let’s say it’s time to go to the vet. I won’t just come up behind her and pick her up and startle her. I always make sure I’ve announced my presence. I come into her field of vision and talk to her so that she knows I’m there. I never want to startle her. I just don’t think there’s any reason to be rude with cats. Be a little more in the cat world in terms of how focused the cat could be. My cat Pearl sitting on her cat tree and she is focused on a squirrel outside. Well, I’m not just going to just grab her. I want to get her attention and ease her into the fact that, okay, there’s going to be a change right now. I think you can avoid a lot of behavior problems and we just stopped thinking like humans and start thinking like cats a little bit. If I were a cat, how would I like to be treated? Would I want someone to just scoop me up when I’m sleeping? No.Jenny :Right. Well, quite frankly if I’m daydreaming and watching a squirrel as a human, I’d rather you ease me into whatever you want to address with me too.Pam :Exactly, if you’re engrossed in a TV show and someone just came up behind you as opposed to coming into the room and saying, hey, excuse me, can I ask you a question – I just because they’re cats doesn’t mean you have the right to be rude.Jenny :Yes, that makes perfect sense. Okay, so Psycho Kitty was a show on UK’s Animal Planet, is that correct?Pam :Yes.Jenny :Okay, so I went to YouTube in preparation for this interview and I saw the trailers of every single episode, and they look really good. But is there a way to watch them online?Pam :Yeah, they’re on iTunes. Unfortunately, it was not aired in the US. It was aired in the UK and France and Italy and Canada, but it did not air in the US. But it’s on ITunes, so you can get it that way.Jenny :Okay. So I will find it on iTunes and then link to it when I post this interview for those that are listening. How was that whole experience for you, the Psycho Kitty? How did it come about and did you enjoy it?[Psycho Kitty Episodes on iTunes]Pam :Doing television is “fun” and I say that in quotes because what you see on TV is very edited. And so what looked like a half an hour, I spent a whole day with these people, and there’s a lot of follow up. So that’s the hard part of TV. The things that I think should have been on there, the explanations, the certain behaviors don’t make good television. So they edit it down to be the most interesting part. I love that it makes people more aware of behavior who didn’t know that cats could be trained, so that was great. But the TV experience is very unnatural for a cat, so that’s hard to have cameras in there. So that was a big concern, making sure that I could do a good household consultation and not have the cameras be intrusive to upset the cat. So that was a balancing act.Jenny :I didn’t even think about that. They’re meeting you and then they’re meeting all the cameramen too.Pam :Yeah, so it was a long time to get the cats comfortable. Because my first goal is, I don’t ever want to stress out the cat more than he’s already stressed out from whatever it is I’m being called for. So from the moment I walk into somebody’s house, that cats’ life should improve. It could not get worse because I have a camera crew behind me. So we worked very hard to make sure that the cats were comfortable. And there’s one episode where the cat didn’t even come down from the upstairs. Because it was too stressful for the cat, and I didn’t want the cat to be stressed. So the camera crew all stayed downstairs and the cat was upstairs.Jenny :Okay.Pam :Because I find that it’s totally wrong if you are doing behavior and you are going into someone’s house and you agitate the cat or you create more stress, and you’re not helping.Jenny :Right. There are like a billion other things going through my head wishing that I could’ve witnessed that situation because I bet that there were so many dynamics going on almost like an airport watching. So do you watch Animal Planets’ My Cat from Hell with Jackson Galaxy?Pam :I don’t. I don’t. I know Jackson and I’ve done a few book signings with him but I don’t get a chance to. The real reason is I’m with cats all day long doing that for a living, that when I go home at night, you know by the time I’m done with the kids and my own pets, and I get into bed at night which is usually about midnight and I turn on TV, I want to escape.Jenny :Right.Pam :So I usually watch the Food Network. That’s the only reason is I don’t want to watch anything related to my work when it’s my downtime.Jenny :Right. Right, makes sense. Whenever I meet with family members and stuff like that, they’re always asking me about Charlie and Trig, who are my cats, and I’m like, you know, I’ve talked about them all day, I’m good.Pam :Yeah. Well, that’s like I’ll go to a function, a wedding or something, and people will find out what I do. And they just oh I have a question for you, I bet you’ve never had this before. And you don’t want to be rude. I want to help people but it’s like, okay, I’m off the clock. I try to be as available as possible but, boy, I really need my downtime. But I think what Jackson Galaxy is doing with the TV show, and I say that not having seen it, he’s brought a lot of awareness about behavior and the quality of cats’ lives, and that’s a good thing.Jenny :Yeah, that’s a good thing.Pam :Because for many years, cats have been second class pet citizen behind dogs, so people are realizing cats can be trained, and they do need a quality of life and quality space, and they are family members, a lifetime commitment. And anytime you send that message, that’s a good thing.Jenny :Yes, I agree. And I’m glad to have the awareness now too like you did for Psycho Kitty – he probably spends all day with follow ups and what not, and we only see what’s good for TV.Pam :Right, you only see what’s good. And also, I’m still dealing with somebody who was on the show that we still email back and forth when other problems come up. Many of my clients become lifelong friends. It’s not just a job, it’s a relationship. They’re trusting you. When you go into their house, they’re trusting you with their furry family member. And they’re having to tell you things that are very personal. And you’re going through their house, I mean I’m touring their house. I’m looking in the bedroom, in the bedroom closet. So a lot of these people become friends because there’s such a bond formed because we both want what’s best for the cat. And I cry when they cry. And I get Christmas cards from them or pictures of the cats years later. And there are many times when I go to the mailbox and I walk back up the driveway crying because someone’s told me that a cat I saw 10 years ago passed away. So it’s a very emotional field, but the rewards, oh my gosh, they outweigh everything.Jenny :I bet. That’s neat. You had mentioned that if you go to a wedding and somebody finds out you’re a cat behaviorist, it made me think of another question for you. How is that received when you are asked, “Hi Pam, what do you do?” Do people generally know what a cat behaviorist is? And also, what kind of facial expressions do you get when you say that?Pam :Well, nowadays because it is more popular, I get less funny looks. But when I started, I did my first house call in 1982, yes I’m that old. But in 1982, nobody was doing this. And so, that was a career that people, even my mother said, “Pam, aren’t you going to get a real career?” So if I went to the doctor and filled out my form and you write occupation and I wrote Cat Behavior Consultant, they’d always stop and go “A what? What is it that you do?” But the good side of it, even though I got a lot of funny stares, it’s that you open the door for a conversation. That, “Oh you do this for a living? That’s funny. I have a cat, he has a problem. I never thought that I could fix it.” So all of a sudden you’ve opened a door that wasn’t opened before.Jenny :Okay.Pam :So, I don’t mind the stares. I don’t mind the comments, and yes, I still get them. But I don’t mind it because out of 9 people who may laugh at me, there’s that one person whose life you change. And then if you change that person’s view of cats and how they train, or if you get them to stop thinking that the cat is behaving out of spite or stupidity or trying to get you back, then you not only change that cat’s life, you change every other cat that person will have for the rest of their life.Jenny :That is true. That’s very true. Cool. Have you ever had a client with a Ragdoll cat that’s had a behavior issue?Pam :I have. I’ve done several Ragdolls, and overwhelmingly they’ve been litter box issues. And a lot of the time, it’s because people want to fit the litter box to their location and not to the size of the cat.Jenny :Yes. So in other words, a Ragdoll needs a bigger box?Pam :It needs a bigger box. They either would, you know, we use a covered box because you know we don’t want the smell what’s going on in there. We don’t want to know what’s going on in there. We use a small covered box, and the cat can’t get in there. Or we want the box to fit between the toilet and the tub in the guest bathroom, so we have to use a small box, or we expect the cat to go through a cat flap into the closet. And Ragdolls are big cats, and that becomes an issue. So that’s overwhelmingly what I’ve found with Ragdolls. Now, there have been other issues of litter box problems due to environmental issues, whether there were too many cats, or that cat was under stress. And you know, as you know, ragdolls, their temperament is so good and they tolerate so much. So when they get stressed out, you know it’s a bad situation. So there have been those issues. But overall a lot, of it’s been the litter box set up itself. And that applies to any big cat – Maine Coon, Norwegian Forest, anything. You have to match the box to the cat, not to your location choice.Jenny :I agree wholeheartedly with that, and also not only just one box but several, especially if you have more than one cat.Pam :Right. The general rule of thumb is one more box than you have cats, and not to have the boxes all lined up in one room because clients will call me and say, “You’ll be so proud of me. We have 8 cats and we have 9 litter boxes.” And then I go there and all the litter boxes are lined up next to each other in one room. Well that’s basically one box. They should be scattered throughout the house so that every cat has an option for safety, so that one cat doesn’t have to pass through another cat’s territory.Jenny :Yes. Yes, I’ve noticed that my cats sometimes, and they both do it to each other so I’m like fair game guys, they like to attack each other when they leave the box. Just sometimes, not all the time. And they both kind of get into it, then they go play. And I’m like, what in the heck man?Pam :And the thing is if they do it evenly, if they take turns being the aggressor and it seems like it’s in play… But if it’s one cat who routinely seems to be the one bullying, or if there’s one cat who is eliminating outside of the litter box on a regular basis because he just doesn’t feel safe going down that long hallway where the other cat blocks and guards…. Again, it comes down to choice. I talk a lot about choice with cat behavior. You want to give a cat a choice. I have to use the litter box but I don’t want to pass that cat because he always smacks me. Oh I have a choice, I can go to the litter box on the other side of the house. So you always want to give them a choice.Jenny :Okay. Now have you ever found any cat behavior issue that is sex related, that it’s predominately a female problem or predominately a male problem?Pam :No, it’s pretty much been evenly split.Jenny :Okay.Pam :It’s personality. Behavior problems happen either because of something genetic, something medical, the environment itself, how the cats were socialized or whether they weren’t socialized at all as kittens, and how many cats you have. So it’s really driven by those individual things for me, at least in my business.Jenny :Okay. Well, good. You just confirmed something. Oftentimes I’m asked, “You know I have a male cat, should I get a female kitten?” And I always say it’s about complementing personalities not…Pam :Exactly. And again, we keep carrying on these things, “Oh, well if you have a male, you have to get a female.” And it is, you said it, the perfect word – complementary personality. There’s another mistake people make beyond the sex of the cat, they think well I have a really shy cat who just hides under the bed all the time. So I’m going to go get a really active cat that will just force him to play. Well, what you might be doing is setting that cat up to be ambushed all the time. So you don’t want to go on the opposite ends of the scale. You want to stay with complementary.Jenny :Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree. That was one of things that happened when my cat Rags, the reason that I started Floppy Cats, when he was 15, we decided as a family that we would adopt two ragdoll kittens. Well, one ragdoll kitten, and thank goodness we went to a breeder who was smart enough to tell us, “Oh it’s a 15 year old cat, I’d get 2 kittens. I wouldn’t get one kitten to harass the 15 year old.”Pam :Right.Jenny :And it was the best decision ever. And she told us which of the two kittens would get along well with Rags, and sure enough she was right. And yes, it made our lives a lot easier because of that.Pam :And it’s important. You know, you think about there are times when, yes, we rescue a cat or the cat finds us and we have no choice, it’s like that was meant to be. But if you right now are thinking about either getting your first cat or getting a companion for a resident cat, do your homework. Because it will really pay off later if you try to match complementary personalities and also make sure of what your needs are. For example, in the beginning of talking to, you know I said I only have one cat and I have one dog. And that is because I’m with cats all day long. I’m the mom of a 13-year old and an 11-year old, and I have a really busy life. So I know what I can give right now is just to the cat and the dog. So you have to, before you bring in another cat, look at your environment and what are you capable of doing. You know, you may want to go to that shelter and rescue that cat that was abused and needs so much work, but are you capable emotionally and are you capable at home to do the work needed? Are your kids at home expecting the perfect little kitten coming with no baggage? So just do your homework beforehand. It will really payoff later.Jenny :Okay. Speaking of homework, your books – I was actually introduced to you through a reader who adopted a Ragdoll wannabe, meaning that it was adopted from a shelter and not necessarily a purebred but has Ragdoll traits. And she said, “I’ve been reading this book, Starting from Scratch, and it is incredible. It’s helped me so much.” So I headed to Amazon to check it out. I am not a good reader because I have horrible reading comprehension. But I was like you know what, this book actually looks kind of interesting. And it was interesting to me from someone that wasn’t starting from scratch with cats but because I get these emails with these issues all the time, I thought that might be something to read. So I bought it and I put it next to my toilet for all those people that need to know that about me. I really enjoy the way that you write, number one. It’s very easy for me to follow, and I have learned a tremendous amount from it. So if you could take a couple minutes kind of explaining your books and maybe, like, someone that’s had cats for years, would they benefit from them and that sort of thing.Pam :Okay. The whole purpose when I write is I want to make it as if I’m standing right next to you doing a house call. I want it to be in a way as if we’re just talking, and that was important to me that my writing style reflect the way I talk. And I also wanted to address the different aspects of living with a cat. So Starting From Scratch is a book about adult cat behavior problems, and it was for the people who, oh, I’ve had a cat for 10 years, I’ve had a cat for 6 years, we’ve lived with this behavior problem, is it too late? That’s why I wrote that book because there are a lot of us out there. We’ve had cats for so long and we’ve put up with these behavior problems because we thought well if we didn’t train early on, we’re never going to get it changed. So that was written to show that you can change those behaviors. I wrote Cat vs. Cat because there are people with multi-cat households, whether it’s 2 cats or 10 cats or more. And the rules all change when you have more than one cat. When you have one cat, then one litter box will do, one food bowl, one water bowl, nobody has to share toys. You bring a second cat in and all the rules change. So I wanted to write a book that was specifically dealing with those unique challenges and rewards of having more than cat. Think Like A Cat I wrote to be just comprehensive. It covers everything from deciding to get a cat, and whether you want or a kitten or a cat, all the way through to the geriatric years. And it’s very in depth and it goes into everything, because some people want one book… I just want to buy one book and I want it to cover the life of my cat, and so I wrote that. I also have other books, I have Psycho Kitty and Hiss and Tell which were just fun books that I wrote about some of the weird house calls I’ve gone on through the years. But what I wanted to do was write them in a way that you also learned. Because some people don’t want to just read, okay do this, do this, do this. They want to read a story, and they’ll learn that way. So I wrote those two books for that. But I try to address, I try to see what the need is out there and what isn’t being covered, and what I can supply.Jenny :Okay. Well good, and I will link to all of those as well in the interview on the site. So we have about 5 minutes left and I wanted to end with was if I am having a cat behavior issue, can I have a private consultation with you and how does that work?Pam :Yes, you can. I do private consultations. They’re usually through Skype, unless you’re in the Nashville area. But the first thing is if you’re having behavior problem, make sure your cat goes to the veterinarian first. I don’t do consultations unless the vet has signed off that it’s not a medical problem. And also, there are so many problems that we label as behavior problems that actually are medically caused. Your cat might be eliminating outside of the litter box because of renal failure, because of diabetes. Your cat might be aggressive because maybe he’s developed hyperthyroidism. So you want to make sure you’ve addressed that first because you don’t want your cat to needlessly suffer. Once the cat has been seen by the veterinarian, if you want a consultation with me you can go to our website at CatBehaviorAssociates.com and click on the consult or consultation page, and it’ll walk you through what’s involved with a Skype consultation. I will say, there are other certified cat behavior consultants. There are also certified applied behaviorists and veterinary behaviorists. So if possible, it’s always better to have somebody in your hometown who could actually do a house call and see the cat in person. That’s the best. That’s better than a Skype consultation. I know that takes business away from me, but you do what’s best for the cat. But depending upon where you live, that may not be an option. But if you are having a behavior problem, go to your veterinarian. Your veterinarian, if there is somebody in your area, could probably recommend. I will say that nowadays with the popularity of cat behavior, anybody can put up a website and call themselves a cat behaviorist. So don’t just be lured in by a flashy website or testimonials. Look at that person’s track record, what their education is, what their certification is, what their experience is, and make sure. Because the wrong person can make the situation worse. And I say that because we get a lot of clients in our office who have already spent money with unqualified people. Just because someone has had cats all their life doesn’t make them a cat behaviorist.Jenny: 오른쪽. I did go to your site and look at the consult stuff, and I like that you require also a video of, you know…Pam: 오른쪽. Because I can’t see the cat, I want to see your environment. If you can capture the behavior itself on video, that’s ideal. I want to see the litter box area. Basically a tour through your house so that I feel as if I’m there because a Skype isn’t as good as an in person. So in order for me to do the best job I can, the more information you send me the better. Plus we also send out a questionnaire that’s probably at least 10 pages long if not longer with a lot of questions that need answering so that by the time we sit down to do the Skype, I already have a lot of background on your cat. So we don’t waste that time with me asking a lot of basic questions, like how many litter boxes do you have and how many times a day do you feed your cat, those kind of things.Jenny :Yes. It sounds very efficient and effective and I love it. Alright, well, is there anything…Pam :It better be effective after all these years. I’ve learned how to streamline stuff. It took years.Jenny :Well, I’m glad. That’s why you’re known as an expert in the field. Is there anything that I didn’t cover that you wanted to cover before we end this call?Pam :No, you did a great job. I think I would just like to leave everybody with don’t live with a behavior problem. There is a solution so find help out there. And most importantly, don’t punish your cat, not matter how bad the behavior seems it is. Whether he’s scratching the furniture, whether he pooped on the floor, don’t punish. Punishment is inhumane and it’s counterproductive because cats don’t misbehave out of spite. When they do something we don’t like, they’re doing something to solve a problem. And if you punish, yell at your cat, squirt him with water, chase him out of the room, put him in time out, whatever punishment… And I know you get frustrated, it’s understandable. But whatever you do it, damages the relationship between you and your cat, and it does nothing to teach him anything. So let’s look at behavior problems from how can I help this cat solve this problem in a way that’s acceptable to both of us. Because that’s what matters most is you don’t want to damage the relationship.Jenny :Right, right. Well, thank you very much for your time and your knowledge. I’m very excited to be able to do this with you, so thank you for doing it.Pam :Well, thank you and thanks for the education that you provide and I really appreciate being able to share my knowledge about cat behavior.